Gaudiya Vaishnavism At The World Parliament Of Religions

Gaudiya Vaishnavism At The World Parliament Of Religions

BY AMOGHALILA DAS

EDITORIAL, Jan 13 (VNN) — VNN recently posted some valuable information about Gaudiya Vaisnavas at the Parliament of the World's Religions, held last month in Cape Town, South Africa. The following exchange, which took place on the second day of the Parliament of the World's Religions, may also be of interest to your readers.

The prominent non-Vaisnava spiritual master Suma Ching Hai, who has tens of thousands of initiated disciples and hundreds of thousands of followers all over the world, spoke at the Parliament, and a Vaisnava raised an interesting question about her talk.

Several thousand persons, including the eight hundred disciples she brought with her, attended the lecture. Interested to learn why Suma Ching Hai had attracted so many followers, or intrigued by thousands of advertisements proclaiming, 'Experience the Enlightening Wisdom of Supreme Master Ching Hai,' a number of Vaisnavas also attended, including His Holiness Bhaktisvarupa Damodara Gosvami. The thousands of attendees listened attentively as Ching Hai described her own direct realization of God, based upon an impersonal process of meditation. In her talk, she specifically said, 'We are God.' However, she moderated this rather categorical statement by further stating, 'Our surname is God, because we are from God,' just like a child gets the surname of the father.

During the question and answer period after the lecture, Dr. Allan M. Keislar (Amoghalila das), who has a Ph.D. in Sanskrit from the University of California at Berkeley and is a disciple of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, had the following discussion with 'the Supreme Master' before this vast audience:

Dr. Keislar: Would you like to explain what is the difference between saying 'I am God' meaning 'My surname is God,' or 'I am a part of God,' and 'I am God,' which some people say, meaning 'I am the totality of God.'

Suma Ching Hai: Yes. Oh, the difference is that when you say, 'I am God,' and 'My name is God,' you have seen yourself as God, as part of God, as one with God, as from God. And the other one you just say it by hearsay, by being told, and by understanding that, 'Okay, I came from God, I must come from God, so my surname must be God.' The other person, he sees God. Okay'

Dr. Keislar: The person who says, 'My surname is God, I am a part of God,' he sees God, or she sees God...'

Suma Ching Hai: No, no. There are two ways. You recognize, you understand that you are ... the surname is God, but maybe you did not see God. And another person who says the same thing, who says 'I am God,' or 'my surname is God,' who has seen God. You see what I mean. So it is more affirmed in the second case.

Dr. Keislar: Okay in the second case then, the one who sees God, will that person say, 'I am part of God,' or 'I am the totality of God.'

Suma Ching Hai: Oh it depends on his level of attainment. It depends on how much he has seen the God-self. He has to go step by step. If he has seen the totality of god, then he can say, 'I am one with God.' Like Jesus has said, 'I and my Father are one.' And before that, you don't say that. You say, 'I have seen God,' 'I have communicated with God,' 'I am part of God,' 'I have seen a part of God.' But you still know already, that is secure in your heart, that you are one with God.

Dr. Keislar: So when you see the totality of God, then do you think you are 100% identical with the totality of God, or do you understand that you are still a tiny part of God'

Suma Ching Hai: Uh ... in the physical body, in the physical dimension, you are a part of God; when you transcend it, and see you be one with God, at that moment you croclaim that you are one with God.

Dr. Keislar: 100%'

Suma Ching Hai: 100%!

Dr. Keislar: You are infinite.

Suma Ching Hai: Yes.

Dr. Keislar: And God is not ...'

Suma Ching Hai: You will see ... (loud applause interrupts the conversation)

Dr. Keislar: God is not ...'

Suma Ching Hai: You will see that.... Yes'

Dr. Keislar: You will no longer understand yourself to be a servant of god and a part of God, you will think that you are ... totality of God and there is no truth superior to you.

Suma Ching Hai: Nothing except God who works within you at that time.

Dr. Keislar: And you don't have any individual identity separate from God.

Suma Ching Hai: Yes, sir.... That you realize.

Dr. Keislar: Yes, you do have an individual identity, or yes, you don't have an individual identity'

Suma Ching Hai: You mean myself, or you mean as general'

Dr. Keislar: You, or anybody who comes to that highest level of realization.

Suma Ching Hai: I cannot talk about everybody, I can only talk about myself. Yes, in the moment of samadhi, in the moment of oneness with God, I know that I am one with God. It's not.... (applause interrupts) Yes. It's not an argument, sir, and it's not the thing that I can prove to you, it is only the individual realization when you are deep, deep inside yourself. (applause)

Dr. Keislar: Please forgive me for taking so much of your precious time....

Suma Ching Hai: Every one of us, overy one of us can realize this.

Dr. Keislar: I want to suggest one thing, which great masters have said. There are three stages of God realization, brahman, paramatma, and bhagavan. In the stage of brahman realization, you identify yourself totally with the brahman, with God. In the stage of paramatma realization, which is higher, according to the ancient Sanskrit texts, you realize that you are a part of God, and you are not the totality of God, and in the highest stage of realization, which is the realization of bhagavan, you realize the Personality of Godhead, and you associate with the Personality of Godhead in intimate exchanges of love, and you don't become God in totality. You remain a part, and a tiny part, of God, and God remains the totality of everything, and you exchange love, bhakti, eternally.

Suma Ching Hai: Can do that also. Of course.... But we are short of time.

Dr. Keislar: Okay.

Suma Ching Hai: We could talk about the Bhagavad-gita all day long, and we can, you know, go from one after another, but just for general speaking.... So you asked me whether I have experienced that oneness with God. I say I have. But nevertheless I am still here, talking as Madama So-and-so, and still eat with you, so I am also individualized ... God. you are very welcome, and thank you for your knowledge.

Dr. Keislar: Thank you very much. (applause)

After one more question and answer, the following conversation between Suma Ching Hai and Dr. Keislar can be heard on the conference tape amidst the sounds of the crowd trying to approach and talk to, or at least touch, "the Supreme Master":

Dr. Keislar: Yesterday I met you when you were, when you were getting in your car, and you said I could see you after this lecture.

Suma Ching Hai: Yes, yes. Okay, okay, okay, come along.... Yes, go ahead, sir.

When "the Supreme Master" reached her car, after about fifteen or twenty minutes of pressing through the crowd, she and Dr. Keislar had a confidential conversation for about five or ten minutes. Although the conversation evidently was not recorded, and was not completely overheard by others, they did continue the discussion that had taken place before the audience of thousands. Dr. Keislar advised Suma Ching Hai to be careful, and told her that many persons, such as Christians who had already received the higher teaching of Paramatma realization from Jesus Christ, might not appreciate her stressing the idea that "We are God."

At one point in the discussion, "the Supreme Master" said to Dr. Keislar, "You are my father. You please protect me," which she repeated more than once. The meeting ended with an affectionate embrace, which the "daughter" requested of her "father," and with Suma Ching Hai presenting to Dr. Keislar a lovely butterfly ornament which she removed from her hair. As "the Supreme Master" left in her car, she and Dr. Keislar were both seen gazing at each other intently, tears flowing from their eyes in spiritual love, and one of her secretaries took Dr. Keislar's card and promised that Suma Ching Hai would contact him when she visited the United States.

Perhaps this exchange of spiritual knowledge and love can be taken as a good example for Vaisnavas in their dealings with sincere non-Vaisnava spiritual masters.

http://ramsss.com/ching-hai